Agree, the work by Salvo and Liberation.scot on the Cobsitutuonand the recent petition to the UN for Acotlabd to be declared a Non Self-Governing territory with a view to moving to a request for help in de-colonising Scotland so we can escape from Engkish shackles, should shame him and his political colleagues by showing what (extra)ordinary people can do when there is a will and a way to further our cause.
Yes absolutely and those for a cushy life can’t be arsed! They can’t even be shamed into action.Everytime I see one of his saccharine comments on Twitter I make an acerbic comment or ask him about independence and he just sails on and I’m sure I am not the only one! NATO Robertson who pushed the pro NATO line in the SNP and some undemocratic procedures through one lunchtime SNP conference. Loathsome! I hope he has very bad dreams at night!
Sadly SNP MPs and MSPs won’t give any comment on independence or what plans they have or why they won’t work with other Indy groups. I wrote to my local MSP who, through the waffle, tried to sound positive, but wouldn’t commit to anything in writing. She was prepared to have a Zoom call with me, but I declined.
It’s disappointing that there is no lead coming from the SNP on independence, and hope that a change of leader at HR2026, perhaps Stephen Flynn, might give the party the shake and direction it needs.
I emailed my local msp and asked him to call on the Scottish government to implement ICCPR, his response was very much in line with that of Angus Robertson:
Thank you for your email dated 17th March 2025 regarding the UN’s International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Schedule 5 of the Scotland Act does allow for the Scottish Government to observe and implement international obligations.
7 (2)(a) – observing and implementing international obligations, obligations under the Human Rights Convention and obligations under EU law.
Sadly, this International Covenant can only be signed by sovereign states recognised by the UN. Currently, the UN does not recognise Scotland as a fully sovereign state in its own right and therefore would be unable to sign the Covenant. However, the United Kingdom (which is a fully sovereign state recognised by the UN) signed the Covenant on the 16th September 1968 and ratified on 20th May 1976 before coming into law on 20th August the same year.
This does mean under the Scotland Act, the Scottish Government and Scots Law does fully comply with the principles of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights although Scotland is not an independent signatory at this point.
However, as SNP MSP, I wish to see and continue to campaign for Scotland become a fully sovereign state in its own right being both a member of the UN and EU. In April 2024, the Scottish Government published Building a New Scotland: Justice in an independent Scotland. This paper outlined the Scottish Government’s intentions to cooperate with treaties and covenants such as the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. I have included a link to this paper here.
I hope this has reassured you that whilst Scotland is unable to be a signatory to the Covenant the current constitution, Scots Law does uphold it. Additionally, when Scotland becomes an independent nation, the Scottish Government is committed to being a member of the international community to uphold covenants and treaties enshrine human rights in law.
If you have time or when you have time, let me know what you think of the reply I received?
Thanks very much for sharing this important letter, Ronald. I've consulted with my RSS colleagues and we suggest you could copy and paste some of the following in a reply to your MSP:
"First, Scotland doesn’t need to sign/ratify ICCPR - It has been done by the UK, including Scotland, in 1976. What hasn’t been done, however, is implementation in UK domestic law, and the UN Human Rights Committee has been criticising the UK for not doing so for many years. The Scottish Human Rights Commission has been saying the same thing since it came into being pre-2020. Your statement that ICCPR came “into law on 20th August of the same year (i.e. 1976)" therefore appears incorrect – could you please provide me with a copy of the law concerned?
The Scottish Government already referred to ICCPR Art 25 in "Building a New Scotland No. 4": Creating a modern constitution for an independent Scotland (Pg. 39) and, as confirmed in your letter, the Scotland Act already gives MSPs the power to legislate. Please therefore confirm that you are in favour of immediate implementation - as requested in RSS Petition PE2135 – or provide me with detailed reasons for your opposition.
You state: “I hope this has reassured you that ….. Scots Law does uphold it” and, once again, this appears to be incorrect. Could you please provide me with a reference to the provision in Scots law which recognises direct Political Rights as described in ICCPR Art 25?
If, as my MSP, you agree with the legal principle, will you please sign PE2135?"
Ronald, I hope this is helpful – please keep me informed on your MSP’s reply.
As you can see I received a follow up reply from my MSP, please let me know what you think.
Thank you for your email dated...
Whilst I am an Acting Minister in the Scottish Government, I am unable to sign any petitions, however, I will closely examine the petition’s contents once I return to the back benches.
Whilst ICCPR did become legally binding in the UK in August 1976, I agree that it is not enforceable in UK law. However, I believe many of the protections included in the ICCPR are included in the Human Rights Act, which is enforceable and part of domestic law in Scotland.
However, as an SNP MSP, please let me reassure you that I continue to advocate and work towards an independent Scotland, within the European Union, that is fully compliant with treaties that ensure fairness, safety and peace for all. This would include the ICCPR as mentioned in the White Paper you mentioned.
Whilst I am unable to sign the petition for reasons aforementioned, I can offer to write to the UK Cabinet Secretary for Justice to ask if the UK Government has plans to include the ICCPR into domestic law as the Scotland Act does not give Holyrood the full powers to sign them at present.
I hope this offer is helpful and clarifies my dedication to an independent Scotland that respects international treaties and rights.
I suggest you respond to him that he is wrong that the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) provides the same human rights protections as those in ICCPR. ECHR doesn't include direct political rights, which are at the heart of direct democracy, nor does it make any reference to national self determination, Article 1 of ICCPR.
And he is also wrong that Holyrood lacks the power to implement int'l human rights agreements IN FULL into Scots law. That power is clearly articulated in The Scotland Act 1998 Schedule 5, if he would care to look and educate himself on the document that empowers the Scottish Parliament.
The SNP needs to be turbo-cleansed of the current hierarchy and any/all who fail daily in their duty to WE Sovereign Scots.
Gutless, shameful and shameless!
Agree, the work by Salvo and Liberation.scot on the Cobsitutuonand the recent petition to the UN for Acotlabd to be declared a Non Self-Governing territory with a view to moving to a request for help in de-colonising Scotland so we can escape from Engkish shackles, should shame him and his political colleagues by showing what (extra)ordinary people can do when there is a will and a way to further our cause.
Yes absolutely and those for a cushy life can’t be arsed! They can’t even be shamed into action.Everytime I see one of his saccharine comments on Twitter I make an acerbic comment or ask him about independence and he just sails on and I’m sure I am not the only one! NATO Robertson who pushed the pro NATO line in the SNP and some undemocratic procedures through one lunchtime SNP conference. Loathsome! I hope he has very bad dreams at night!
Sadly SNP MPs and MSPs won’t give any comment on independence or what plans they have or why they won’t work with other Indy groups. I wrote to my local MSP who, through the waffle, tried to sound positive, but wouldn’t commit to anything in writing. She was prepared to have a Zoom call with me, but I declined.
It’s disappointing that there is no lead coming from the SNP on independence, and hope that a change of leader at HR2026, perhaps Stephen Flynn, might give the party the shake and direction it needs.
Apologies for the typos but I've got Glaucoma.
I rather liked 'Engkish'!!
I emailed my local msp and asked him to call on the Scottish government to implement ICCPR, his response was very much in line with that of Angus Robertson:
Thank you for your email dated 17th March 2025 regarding the UN’s International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Schedule 5 of the Scotland Act does allow for the Scottish Government to observe and implement international obligations.
7 (2)(a) – observing and implementing international obligations, obligations under the Human Rights Convention and obligations under EU law.
Sadly, this International Covenant can only be signed by sovereign states recognised by the UN. Currently, the UN does not recognise Scotland as a fully sovereign state in its own right and therefore would be unable to sign the Covenant. However, the United Kingdom (which is a fully sovereign state recognised by the UN) signed the Covenant on the 16th September 1968 and ratified on 20th May 1976 before coming into law on 20th August the same year.
This does mean under the Scotland Act, the Scottish Government and Scots Law does fully comply with the principles of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights although Scotland is not an independent signatory at this point.
However, as SNP MSP, I wish to see and continue to campaign for Scotland become a fully sovereign state in its own right being both a member of the UN and EU. In April 2024, the Scottish Government published Building a New Scotland: Justice in an independent Scotland. This paper outlined the Scottish Government’s intentions to cooperate with treaties and covenants such as the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. I have included a link to this paper here.
I hope this has reassured you that whilst Scotland is unable to be a signatory to the Covenant the current constitution, Scots Law does uphold it. Additionally, when Scotland becomes an independent nation, the Scottish Government is committed to being a member of the international community to uphold covenants and treaties enshrine human rights in law.
If you have time or when you have time, let me know what you think of the reply I received?
Thanks very much for sharing this important letter, Ronald. I've consulted with my RSS colleagues and we suggest you could copy and paste some of the following in a reply to your MSP:
"First, Scotland doesn’t need to sign/ratify ICCPR - It has been done by the UK, including Scotland, in 1976. What hasn’t been done, however, is implementation in UK domestic law, and the UN Human Rights Committee has been criticising the UK for not doing so for many years. The Scottish Human Rights Commission has been saying the same thing since it came into being pre-2020. Your statement that ICCPR came “into law on 20th August of the same year (i.e. 1976)" therefore appears incorrect – could you please provide me with a copy of the law concerned?
The Scottish Government already referred to ICCPR Art 25 in "Building a New Scotland No. 4": Creating a modern constitution for an independent Scotland (Pg. 39) and, as confirmed in your letter, the Scotland Act already gives MSPs the power to legislate. Please therefore confirm that you are in favour of immediate implementation - as requested in RSS Petition PE2135 – or provide me with detailed reasons for your opposition.
You state: “I hope this has reassured you that ….. Scots Law does uphold it” and, once again, this appears to be incorrect. Could you please provide me with a reference to the provision in Scots law which recognises direct Political Rights as described in ICCPR Art 25?
If, as my MSP, you agree with the legal principle, will you please sign PE2135?"
Ronald, I hope this is helpful – please keep me informed on your MSP’s reply.
Dear Leah,
As you can see I received a follow up reply from my MSP, please let me know what you think.
Thank you for your email dated...
Whilst I am an Acting Minister in the Scottish Government, I am unable to sign any petitions, however, I will closely examine the petition’s contents once I return to the back benches.
Whilst ICCPR did become legally binding in the UK in August 1976, I agree that it is not enforceable in UK law. However, I believe many of the protections included in the ICCPR are included in the Human Rights Act, which is enforceable and part of domestic law in Scotland.
However, as an SNP MSP, please let me reassure you that I continue to advocate and work towards an independent Scotland, within the European Union, that is fully compliant with treaties that ensure fairness, safety and peace for all. This would include the ICCPR as mentioned in the White Paper you mentioned.
Whilst I am unable to sign the petition for reasons aforementioned, I can offer to write to the UK Cabinet Secretary for Justice to ask if the UK Government has plans to include the ICCPR into domestic law as the Scotland Act does not give Holyrood the full powers to sign them at present.
I hope this offer is helpful and clarifies my dedication to an independent Scotland that respects international treaties and rights.
Thanks, Ronald. What is your MSP's name?
I suggest you respond to him that he is wrong that the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) provides the same human rights protections as those in ICCPR. ECHR doesn't include direct political rights, which are at the heart of direct democracy, nor does it make any reference to national self determination, Article 1 of ICCPR.
And he is also wrong that Holyrood lacks the power to implement int'l human rights agreements IN FULL into Scots law. That power is clearly articulated in The Scotland Act 1998 Schedule 5, if he would care to look and educate himself on the document that empowers the Scottish Parliament.
Best,
Leah
Thanks, Ronald. I’ll get back to you on this.